Our fifth episode of “in the hearts of men” podcast

This is the fifth episode of Robbie J. Bone and Kirby Freeman’s Podcast: In the hearts of men.

In today’s episode, we discuss How to Navigate Life Changes & Transitions with Ease.

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>>> To sign up for the Equanimous Man men’s circle, or to learn more, click here <<<

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[00:00] Welcome everyone to another episode of In the Hearts of Men. I’m Robbie J. Bone and this is Kirby Freeman. And today we’re going to be talking all about transitions in life and how to navigate life transitions and also how not to navigate life transitions. And
[00:21] this is something that is really alive for me personally right now because this week I’ve been transitioning into a new home and a new living situation which is one of the major life transitions we can go through. And I’m curious for all of you watching who here is navigating a life transition who has been navigating
[00:46] one. And perhaps you’re anticipating one because we’re all going to move through those at different points in time. And so they can include things like the core, our family, relationships, living situations, work, finances, as well as inner transitions as well where sometimes we’re going through a
[01:07] major identity shift. >> And often that’s mirrored by the outer. However, sometimes it’s more of an internal process where a part of us may be dying or being reborn. And so I’m curious, Kirby, if you have any life transition that arises in this moment from your past
[01:28] >> that you can glean wisdom from that you’d be open to sharing about and how you navigated it >> either in a good way or maybe in not such a good way. >> Yeah. the transition really hits home for me. It really, you know, it’s it’s always happening and it’s always it’s a
[01:45] part of life. I feel that continues to unfold. And from a young age, I like I feel I feel it would be wise to go into how I navigated transition from an unhealthy place and then into how I now navigate transition from what I feel to be a healthy a healthy place. And so the unhealthy me would anticipate and see
[02:12] the transition that was coming and I would resist it and I would procrastinate and I would lean into not feeling it and keep everything as similar as I could to what the norm was before the inevitable change was happening. And that really created a lot of
[02:33] stickiness in me and a lot of really not being prepared, you know. So going into a move for example and having to do everything at the end. It’s like packing and getting the house clean and just not not being prepared, which created a really deep sense of overwhelm and inability to navigate it with emotional
[02:54] regulation and nervous system regulation. And yeah, so I would procrastinate to the very end and then I would throw on top substances like alcohol and tobacco and cannabis and drugs and just um that created a climate where I was highly volatile and
[03:18] I was unable to navigate with fluency. So, um, yeah, that and that would kind of it it’s a perpetual cycle for me where when I was in that pattern, in that loop, it would just continue repeating until the next transition, the next change. And um, it would be forced and it would
[03:38] happen and it just really didn’t feel good in my body. And so, yeah, I got to a place where I’m like, something’s got to change or else this is going to essentially kill me, you know? And so I I looked at it and I’m like, what how can I do things differently and
[03:59] I leaned into taking preparation and preparing for the change that was coming? And the first step at that for me was cultivating a sense of space, finding a a breath, finding a pocket of time to look at the change that was happening and look at what I could do to prepare myself for it, to prepare myself
[04:21] for my future self, my higher self. And I took small steps in that direction, be it, you know, packing a box today. And it’s really wild what can happen when you slowly uh prepare for change. The change happens seemingly more gradually and a lot more there there’s a heightened sense of ability for my
[04:44] nervous system to navigate gradual change opposed to abrupt change. So that’s like a a general macro scope on the navigation of change that I feel is wise to talk about here. But I’m curious in you, what are your thoughts? What how have you navigated change in or transition in an unhealthy
[05:07] way and how do you navigate them now in a healthy way? >> Yeah. So, it’s a very good question and it’s something that what you were sharing really resonated around preparing as >> I’m sure many of us can relate to procrastinating.
[05:29] and various reasons why we procrastinate. And I’m no different. And I thank my mother for kind of lovingly suggesting. She said, you know, it might be good to pack a few boxes this month before the end of the month. And
[05:49] >> you know, I I thought my mom’s really organized. She’s really smart. >> And that’s what she would do. And I should probably do that, too. And that was actually a moment of growth because I’ve realized at times I’ve rebelled in my life against how my parents have lived as we
[06:08] all do. And that’s an old adolescent theme that we’re really meant to grow out of. And rather than rebelling against or on the other side just doing what mom and dad did, we can be inspired by them, learn from their shadows and create our own version of it and become our own person. So I share that because
[06:28] that’s part of the internal process that I’ve been in in this transition as well has been a deepening of my maturity >> into deeper levels of manhood and adulthood. And I’m really grateful for that >> because the outer transitions always are going to spark and create opportunity
[06:45] for the inner transitions, the inner transformations, whatever they might be. And what I’ve found is that the times in my life where I have resisted change or been unwilling to change is when bigger transitions come into my life or those transitions can be more harsh. M >> so for example I think of moments when
[07:11] I’ve been in nonoptimal living conditions or situations in relationships that don’t serve or in locations that I’m no longer meant to be in. And because I’ve been in the chaos of my life or I haven’t wanted to change, I’ve wanted to stay in the familiar. There’s a time when that
[07:28] transition comes and it happens quickly suddenly and then the chaos of my life reflects in the change >> and then the change is chaotic >> and it tends to create a trail of chaos >> where there’s fallout and there often can be fallout in relationships in life when we have major
[07:50] transitions or transformations. That’s part of it. However, the more we can be willing to step into those changes within oursel, the more the world will respond in likeness. >> So I found that the willingness to shift internally makes a big difference
[08:12] and also space creating as much space as we can. So the preparation I’m reminded of when my father was unwell as a teenager and when I was a teenager and knowing that he was going to pass away and there was a lot of preparation for me emotionally and mentally for this time
[08:34] that was coming. I didn’t know when and I didn’t know what the circumstance would be. However, I knew that it was coming. And so I would have a lot of like preparatory grief and movement within myself that was also facing it. >> And when the day came, I was more prepared.
[08:55] >> It was still quite shocking and traumatic. However, I was more prepared. >> However, what I wasn’t prepared for was what followed that and the unknown of what followed that. And so there are things that we can’t account for >> and there’s things that we can prepare oursel for mentally even if we don’t
[09:13] know what it’ll be like. Even just for me like in this recent move I had had these feelings like yeah maybe it is time to move on from this living situation, this home that I’d lived in the last almost four years. And then I remember this summer I went to a gathering. I was away from the house for
[09:32] about a week. It was really beautiful and I was on kind of on cloud nine like just feeling really amazing, super joyful, connected to my heart, >> feeling the creator. >> And as soon as I drove onto the property, I just felt heaviness, density.
[09:49] >> It was such like a night and day, black and white. >> And I just felt uncomfortable. I felt out of place. And it was strange because this was home for me, right? And so right away as soon as I got home, I of course went on my phone and started scrolling. No, I’m just kidding. I sat
[10:08] and started uh meditating. >> Mhm. >> And I just sat in prayer around it and asked, “Okay, what’s what’s going on here? Why am I feeling this way?” And I heard this resounding voice, call it the voice of spirit, the voice of God, my my higher self, my intuition, whatever it
[10:25] is, and said, “This is not your home anymore.” >> Period. >> Not really much else. >> I found that when I really have those clear messages, it’s there’s not a lot of fluff. There’s not a lot of beating
[10:38] around the bush. Just like this is how it is. >> And often when that message comes, there’s an instant like I don’t want to hear that. M >> that you know there’s a resistance to it >> and so I heard that voice and there was also a deeper knowing of the truth of
[10:52] that >> and so right then I accepted it. There was some resistance but I also accepted it and then it was a question of when and where okay when is when am I going to move and where am I going to move to >> and that began the preparation
[11:10] >> and I began letting go because letting go is a process. So the letting go for me was starting to release my attachments to the land, to the space, to the home, and starting to also become aware of how it wasn’t serving me anymore, which then by the time it came time to move on, I was like
[11:32] so ready >> to the point of like I want to leave now kind of thing, even when it wasn’t quite time to. >> And so that’s been a bit of my process. And in the logistics of it, in the process of it, it’s also been a
[11:52] preparation of creating space in my life, allowing more space, which does can cost some money. So, a bit of like financial whether it means spending more money to like hire movers or a cleaner or whether it’s taking less work so that there’s more space in my schedule. So, creating
[12:13] space in a variety of ways, making some sacrifices so that the transition from one to the next can be smooth. It can have less chaos. It can be respectful to me, to the spaces, to the people involved. and that it can also give me the space to really go through the internal shift and transformation
[12:32] >> because one of the things that I’ve learned this year is that it’s a really beautiful teaching that the universe wants us to grow which means the universe wants us to change >> which means that if we don’t change of our own free will the universe will create orchestrations to force that
[12:51] change >> and the more we can preemptively change the less the universe has to do those things >> and the less harsh they need to be. >> So it’s like I’ve lived here four years. I’m going to move >> rather than waiting for some chaotic
[13:05] thing to happen >> or I’ve been doing this schedule every day for six months. I’m going to change it >> consciously changing is what I hear. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Exactly. So creating these microtransitions in our life
[13:17] >> that also get us used to transitions >> rather than just always doing the same old. And yeah, I’m curious how that lands for you in your life. >> Well, when you were sharing like how you maybe in the shadow used to change and resist it.
[13:40] >> Um, it came through really strong for me that resistance creates a deeper sense of suffering. >> When we resist something, it persists and it magnifies and it shows up in bigger ways. So I really connected with that part and you know it’s really beautiful to see you in current state
[13:58] with how you are um approaching and navigating this transition. >> It’s really it seems to be really aligned and like you’re you’re doing so consciously. you’re you’re creating a conscious change which is really beautiful to see and yeah I mean I feel like there’s a
[14:19] part that wants to be heard here around um another support system within transition and change and that’s community and having a solid sense of community around you to talk to to counsel to to bounce ideas back and forth with to support you with physically moving you know, as I had the
[14:40] honor to do with you, as you did with me just over a year ago, you know, so it’s really beautiful to >> to have that. And it’s like just having allies around that can that can hold you energetically, physically, spiritually, mentally um I find to be really beneficial in times of
[15:01] transition. Um yeah, there’s in particular with loss I I found, you know, a really impactful change on me and my and my spirit and my soul when was when my my dog that I had for uh a very long time, she transitioned and passed away. and the community that I
[15:24] had around me really held me well and created ceremony for Chewy to to cross over and like it was really beautiful and impactful to to have that support in that time of change. And it really helped me to grieve and and sit through the process of grief, not necessarily always with hardship, but with joy and
[15:45] tears at the same time. Like it’s really community can create such a deep impact in times of transition and I feel like I would be largely lost without having a really sound community around me. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Thank you for speaking to that
[16:03] because I feel the same like this this year has had many transitions for me. One was the ending of a relationship, >> the leaving of a living situation, and a lot of internal transition and transformation. And without a doubt, there’s been so
[16:23] much flow and ease in those processes as a result of people like yourself and my family and community around me that have given me a lot of strength >> as well as my individual sovereign relationship with my own soul and the creator as well. Because what I found in that is we need our human relatives, our
[16:45] human connections. And this connection to a higher power for me create has created a deep deeper sense of trust and faith that like even when we’re going through a transition, we know there’s this higher power guiding our life and this higher power is of good and love and virtue and has
[17:04] our best interest in mind even if it doesn’t feel that way. >> Yeah. And that allows for these sticky moments in transition where it’s like this isn’t what I want or this doesn’t feel good or this is stressful, difficult, challenging. It’s like okay, I know that God is with me, watching
[17:21] over me, guiding me and it’s all going to work out. >> And then having the human people who show up and show up in a physical and emotional way, whether it’s helping move or just someone to talk to or someone to boo boost our mood and spirits. I know for me that’s something that I found
[17:39] really valuable in the men’s circles that we do >> where there’s this weekly touchstone to come into this this point of contact once a week where some weeks it’s like we’re supporting someone else in the transition big or small. other weeks we’re the ones needing support and
[17:58] having that regular consistent space creates a lot more groundedness >> and regulation in the transition >> because we are meant to be held by other people as humans >> and isolation breeds a lot of anxiety and fear and angst and
[18:22] >> stress and chaos. Mhm. Mhm. >> And it’s not just about having those people around us, but also allowing them into our hearts, into our world, which is about intimacy. >> Into me, you see. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It intimacy is huge with it. And
[18:43] and letting people in on your on your experience and and what is really going on. It’s like how can we demask and take away all of the layers? so that we can feel that deep sense of connection and reveal our inner worlds and our landscapes as to what’s happening in our bodies and in our minds in any given
[19:03] moment. >> You know, >> it’s like I I really love the um the concept of, you know, so many people just walk down the sidewalk. It’s like why are they walking because everybody else does? Why are we not rolling or spinning or dancing or cartwheeling or
[19:20] or doing back flips, you know? It’s like how can we embody that authenticity in a relationship so that I continually am revealing to you and you to me. >> Yeah, it’s that’s the topic that we were going to potentially talk about today was reveal and withhold
[19:42] >> which will be a future episode to go into deeper detail. Well, >> that said, that’s been for me revealing more of my inner world and allowing people in more deeply helps me feel the support. >> Mh. >> Because I’ve through my whole life, I’ve
[20:01] always had people around, whether it be a partner, >> a community, friends, family. However, in being shut off in the past, it can feel like we’re alone. Even when we’re surrounded by people. >> It helps you feel not just the support >> revealing helps you feel.
[20:20] >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Exactly. And that feeling is emotional food. >> It’s like without it we become starved emotionally. Mhm.
[20:35] And that’s what leads into the wanting to cope and the wanting to um seek external validation from, >> you know, sources that really don’t serve us, >> right? So, we nip it in the bud by being intimate and and revealing with people who we trust
[20:53] >> in a safe, succinct, clear way, >> knowing what we need in it, and also Yeah. Just being real. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love something my elder teaches which is that we have four parts of oursel. We have our physical, mental, emotional and
[21:13] spiritual. >> And how every day we need to be feeding all those four parts of oursel. >> So food, nourishment, physically taking care of our bodies, the mind, learning new things, stretching us ourselves, creating new beliefs. And emotionally, it’s so much around feeling what we need
[21:33] to feel, being honest about how we feel, and also letting people in and revealing those inner worlds and feelings to each other. >> And then spiritually is, of course, taking that time every day to sit with the creator >> and sit with our own soul and selves,
[21:47] >> which in a way is preparation for transition, >> right? Because the more balanced and equinimous we can become within our own ecosystem, the more readily we are able to accept and feel and bring forward and call forward conscious beautiful change. >> Yeah.
[22:09] And another thing I’d add in this is our mindset around it, right? and and to look at what we’re gaining rather than what we’re losing, >> you know, and and how gaining can be a variety of things. For
[22:29] me, the deepest gains in my life is my own growth and evolution >> and increasing my capacity for love, increasing my capacity for joy. And something I found is in any transition, there’s so much growth. And so there’s so much to be gained >> and even here like you know moving into
[22:50] a new living situation trusting that it’ll get better >> you know because sometimes you got to move and you don’t know what’s next >> trusting like it’s going to get better >> that as I let go life gets better >> what I hear in that is perspective >> right it’s not necessarily seeing what
[23:06] is to be gained which I hear is impactful for you but the perspective of what if it is better >> how good can this life yet how good can this relationship be? >> How can I improve myself >> to therefore improve the lives of all of them or all all the people around me?
[23:25] >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Which I’ve found whenever we let go and surrender and really allow ourselves to die in those moments and allow the old to to fade away, life always gets better. Mhm. >> It doesn’t mean it gets better
[23:45] instantly. Sometimes there’s a transition point and sometimes it does. Sometimes it gets better very quickly. So even in the loss of a person in our life, especially in the situation of death, it’s often not an instantaneous thing. >> However, through the learning and
[24:02] hardships and the depths of grief and loss, we carve out all this room in our heart for more love. When we really go through it in a loving way rather than >> coping with addictions or avoiding or denying just allowing oursel to be in the rawness of it, we actually gain a lot from death.
[24:22] >> Mhm. >> And that’s one of the gifts of of loss >> and death. And that’s that’s what my dad taught me >> was like when my dad left my life, it created this big hole. And that hole sometimes was filled with things that didn’t serve like depression and apathy
[24:42] and aloneeness and all these and certain you know addictive tendencies and >> isolation. However, what I saw in it in the scope of my life is that big hole got filled but by something so wonderful which was God >> like the divine father. This this archetype of that we do have a spiritual
[25:04] father. the masculine aspect of creator and we have a divine mother the feminine aspect of creator and that in the loss of my father I’ve filled it with God >> almost envisioning death as a birth >> it’s like flipping it flipping it upside down >> and seeing it as a rebirth because it
[25:24] can be >> if we allow ourselves >> if we allow ourselves to Exactly. Mhm. And so yeah, that feels like a good transition point. >> Mhm. Yeah, agreed.
[25:51] So, do you have any closing closing thoughts that I have on transition are if you’re going through a transition right now and you are witnessing yourself in a place of challenge in it, cultivate a little bit of space for yourself to
[26:12] sit with it and feel it and see perhaps how an old version of you would have navigated it >> and then take a look at how you want it to go and steepen that for a little bit >> and choose differently. >> Yeah. And one thing that I would add is the edge of transition is always
[26:36] the fear and the fear of what we might be losing or how things could get worse. >> So you lose a job, the fear of not eating. you lose a relationship, the fear of being alone or, you know, never finding love again. And >> what I found has helpful is to sit with
[26:56] both possibilities. >> And we’ve done this meditation before >> where you sit with the reality of like everything getting worse >> and get really okay with that, knowing that even if it gets worse, you are strong enough to get through that and it will get better. Mhm.
[27:12] >> And then sit with the reality of things getting really good and even better than you can imagine and get really comfortable with that >> and become a find that state of equinimity >> where whether it goes to the bad w the bad way or the way that doesn’t is not
[27:27] ideal or the ideal way either way you can find a sense of peace >> and from there you can move through the transition with peace and often that bodess very well for the outcome. often it leads to a better outcome >> because it decreases the attachment to it. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that.
[27:43] That’s an impactful practice that you brought to me that I really love sitting in and steeping in. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, another thing that we will share is that for those who are in transition and are needing support,
[28:03] especially men, that’s part of our intention around this men’s group, >> the Aquinomous Man that Kirby and I have started. We have our call here in a few hours, actually, every Monday. And we’re going to be starting more groups in the future, too, at different times of the week. And it’s really an intention
[28:20] because so many times men isolate themselves and then they put all their eggs in their work or their relationship and when that falls away or degrades then suddenly they’re left in this transition with no support. >> And that can be then a big danger to fall into addictions or negative spirals
[28:42] or poor choices. And so part of our intention around the aquaminous man is to have this weekly touch point for men to come and receive support, be supported, and to be in transition and to be prepared for transition through resiliency, emotional resiliency. So that’s available for those who are
[29:01] interested and we’re available to talk more about that. And please comment or reach out to us and we’d love to share more. >> Yeah. Thank you for your words today and thank you for this opportunity. It’s always a a blessing to >> to record these with you.
[29:21] >> Yeah, I feel the same. >> Thank you for inviting me into your home and sharing this space. And thank you to everyone who’s watched and listened to this. >> And we’d love to hear your perspective, too. How do you navigate transition? What have you learned
[29:34] >> through transitions in your life? >> Yeah.