Our sixth episode of “in the hearts of men” podcast

This is the sixth episode of Robbie J. Bone and Kirby Freeman’s Podcast: In the hearts of men.

In today’s episode, we discuss moving Beyond the Savior: Stop Fixing, Start Loving.

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[00:00] Welcome to another episode of In the Hearts of Men podcast where we explore the inner world and inner workings of men and humans in general. And today we have a topic about the savior and what it means to be a savior. Savior and how we can fall into that role unconsciously especially especially as
[00:25] men in relationship to women and that archetype of the night in shining armor to come in and kind of save a woman from her own story. And it often women subconsciously crave this and desire it. However, it generally doesn’t bode well. It doesn’t usually serve either party and it can
[00:50] create some codependencies and yeah, dysfunctions that don’t really serve and don’t empower. It’s not a truly empowered place to move from as a man and it certainly doesn’t empower women in their life. And so to start, I’d love to hear your
[01:07] experience with that >> and how has that shown up in your life. >> Yeah, I see the Savior and the energy of the Savior. Thank you for the question in the opening. I see it as a like a a pretty big shadow in society and how many men show up and are almost
[01:32] longing to be showed up for in a similar way. And I can relate I can really connect to um both sides of it actually in showing up with trying to save and also needing to be saved. >> Right? So, um, looking at it both ways and often times for me in romantic relationship in particular, it showed up
[01:52] in a subconscious way, not knowing that I was doing it, but but looking at my patterning and my history and seeing that I was choosing to be in relationship with women that were wanting to be saved and the act of them wanting something external to save them um made it so that
[02:17] there was like codependency and attachments and attachment styles that were really not healthy and dysfunctional. And yeah, it really unfolded in in several circumstances in ways that like were really unhealthy because the pattern just kind of inflated and and inflated until there
[02:36] were large ruptures in the relationship that were not manageable or sustainable. So yeah, it created, you know, I feel like a large part of relationship is creating sustainability and equinimity within the individuals and saving somebody or being the resource
[02:56] for somebody to be saved creates um anability to to relate in a healthy way. >> Yeah. So yeah, I’m looking at like my my um exwife and the relationship that I had with her and there was a lot of stuff that came up in that relationship where
[03:22] she wanted to be doing things and was relying on me to help her through them. But when I was not there, she was not willing to do it. And that was a very clear mirror to how I was also showing up where I was relying on her to save me, but I was not willing to do it on my own. And I think that’s the biggest part
[03:44] of um navigating the savior energy is saving yourself, right? Like really coming back home to the self and realizing that nobody is here to save you. You can hear beautiful reflections and you can allow in what you choose, but at the end of the day, you’re here to navigate it on your own in your own
[04:06] inner outer world and do that inner work. So that you know, I I feel like the workaround and the way to integrate the savior is to save yourself. >> Yeah. >> How about you? So, I’m reminded of a teaching that I recently received, and it’s a book that
[04:30] was recommended to us by a mutual friend and brother in our men’s circle. And the book is called Fierce Intimacy by Terry >> Real. >> And really wonderful book. I’m not finished it yet, however, I’m partway through. I’ve been listening to it on Audible.
[04:46] And he talks about how when there’s conflict in relationship, tension or some sort of stressful encounter, it can be a conflict that’s not necessarily a fight or it could be a full-blown fight or argument. And that we tend to have a knee-jerk reaction that’s either fight, flight, or fix. And so that stuck with
[05:11] me because I hadn’t heard the fix piece, >> right? Like >> I’ve heard the fight or flight, of course we have, or freeze. And he refle reflects that freeze and flight are the same. That if you freeze in a conflict, you’re actually emotionally running and you’re shutting down.
[05:27] >> So even though you may not physically be running out of the house or whatever, you’re basically running away and not coming fully forward in in intimacy and realness. >> And that taking space is different than running too, right? Because you could say, “Oh, I’m overwhelmed right now. I
[05:41] need to take space and I’m not running away. We’re going to come back to this however I need space to reg to regulate or get clarity. >> Mhm. And the fixed piece is what really stuck out for me because to me that’s how the savior has shown up particularly is in a dynamic with a feminine or or a
[06:03] female um especially in relationship if there is a conflict or a problem that fixer can come out >> and often it can become then focused on the other and trying to fix them >> even and it’s often well-intentioned. Mhm. >> It’s like, hey, maybe I can help this
[06:22] person or >> or save them. >> And what I found the nuance is is that when we’re trying to fix or save, for me, it’s it’s a place of it’s not rooted in an empowerment. >> So, it’s not coming from an empowered
[06:43] place within myself, nor is it actively empowering that person. Mhm. >> and holding them and challenging them to grow. It’s it’s basically like trying to do the work for them. >> So, it’s kind of like if your kid, you know, has an issue with their homework, >> it’s like you can either help them
[07:03] understand how to do it themselves or you can just take it and do it for them. >> And >> which is easier short term is to do it for them. >> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Precisely. >> Yeah. But in the long run, >> Yeah. it’s not helping anyone.
[07:16] >> Mhm. And that’s similar. It’s like when someone has an emotional problem, let’s say, or something’s come up for them, if we try to do it for them too much, then it takes away their opportunity to take responsibility as well. >> How do you deepen in the opportunity then? How do you like in an in a
[07:36] circumstance, what do you do there? >> I find questions are really helpful. Questions that keep pointing someone inward, >> questions that can be gentle if needed or penetrative and intense and strong and really like driving them to the truth
[07:55] >> and trying to keep the questions not too pointed, you know, not trying to just like because you can ask a question that’s very much like pointing them >> to a certain outcome or you can keep them general. And I find there’s a balance because sometimes we can see
[08:12] with clarity where someone is blind within themsel and then we can ask questions that are a bit more pointed to help guide them there >> without it being so overt. >> Mh. >> So open-ended questions and I have a variety of techniques and practices that
[08:27] I work with in myself and with clients that are really helpful for that that are beyond questions. They might be a guided practice of like okay like you’re feeling this this this emotion or this is up for you. Can you feel that part of yourself? >> Okay. What does that part of yourself
[08:45] need? What is what age is that part of yourself? Uh what what is that part of yourself? How do they look in your inner vision? >> Mhm. >> And sometimes it might be oh wow it’s this little boy or girl inside of myself that’s completely
[09:00] aloof and cold and crying. It’s like, okay, wow, that’s like some real sadness there. >> And so they kind of get a sense of empowerment in their own process. And then even though they may not be able to get there on their own, there’s a sense of, oh, like I’m engaged in this
[09:18] process, >> which is how I like to work with clients and do energy work anyways because then it’s it’s not like, oh, I’m the one doing it. It’s like, no, you’re actively in it. And if anything, you’re doing more than I’m doing. And now that client or person or friend or whoever it is is
[09:34] going to feel more empowered. They’re going to feel more confident rather than, oh, I need this person to guide me. So it shows up in client relationships too, right? We don’t want to save our clients either. >> We want to support them and empower them.
[09:48] >> Facilitation. Facilitate so that they can find their own keys. >> Yeah. Exactly. And that’s how I find it to be a really wonderful way to support someone. And yeah, something that we’ve talked about that I’ve kind of picked from you
[10:06] because you say it often is what is this need? >> Mh, >> right? Like what what does this anger need? What is this insecurity need? Whatever it is. And sometimes that person is really clear like, “Oh, I actually just need a hug right now.”
[10:19] Okay. Well, that’s really simple. >> Mhm. >> I’m not saving you. I’m just here to offer you a warm embrace. >> Mhm. >> So, yeah. How does it show up in your in your life? How do you how do you draw that fine line between supporting,
[10:35] uplifting, empowering versus fixing and saving? >> Yeah. I questions I find that to be the most direct way massaging it with with words and allowing for the keys to be revealed and shown and and found by um the person who’s in the um challenging energy.
[10:56] >> Mhm. And once that is found, I really like to create another layer of embodiment. Going into the body and really feeling it from a place of deeper grounding and understanding of the concept that we’re that we’re discussing or creating >> and that can the embodiment in
[11:15] particular I find really impactful in me and many people through breath work through cold therapy through like having these ideas present when we are feeling into our body. Mhm. >> Um meditation can be really impactful or yoga or something that is deeply mindful. Chiong um
[11:37] yeah many different ways of actually feeling in the body what it’s like to integrate and bring this into your life. >> So yeah, I really feel um with clients I like to I like to hold them. I like to understand them and I like to keep it quite open and and it is a um it’s a bit of a seessaw when it comes to
[11:57] like how direct am I going to be. Sometime it depends on the person and how receptive they are um and how the level of trust that we have developed in the relationship with with clients that I trust and they trust me deeply. I’ll be very direct >> and and very clear um with my questions.
[12:18] Whereas, you know, when when we’re still developing that, I feel like keeping it more open and not necessarily hammering the nail in right away is wise because again, the hammering of the nail is almost like I am fixing again or I am trying to I’m attaching to an outcome. So I have to be
[12:38] really clear that I am not attached to any outcome with it unfolding. >> Um and I’m just here to hold and support and from that place uh the questions and embodiment really create um change in in the people moving forward. I feel >> yeah I love that. I find whenever there’s something active in the system
[13:01] there’s always sensation >> feeling and andor emotion. Mhm. >> thoughts, memories, beliefs, and ultimately some sort of identity, some part of the self that’s trapped in some state of being that’s not that’s no longer serving. >> Where do men get most stuck in it?
[13:21] >> Right. The >> like where do you feel most men get stuck? >> I would say in the feeling and sensation. >> Okay. I would say thought. >> Mhm. Oh, yeah. Yeah, definitely. What I mean is like the stuckness of like not
[13:35] being able to access the feeling sensation. So yeah, stuck in the thought. >> Yeah. Stuck in thinking about this thing. >> Yeah. >> Instead of feeling this. >> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.
[13:43] >> Mhm. >> Mhm. >> For sure. >> And what’s the So the work through if if a client comes to you and is stuck in their head, >> how do you um embody them? How do you create that sense of movement for them?
[13:59] >> Yeah. For me, it’s it’s always about guiding inward. So, it’s a it’s a process that depends on the person and their capacity to experience their inner self. So, if they’re stuck in the mind and they’re not able to go inward, then we need to approach it from more question rational intellect kind of
[14:20] energy until they sink into a space of deeper receptivity, which can take a long time for someone. Mhm. >> Uh generally the people I work with have more capacity to tune into subtleties. So then it’s a matter of like okay like would you be willing to close your eyes and take a few deep breaths and just let
[14:39] go of your mind for a moment and feel your heart and what do you feel? >> Mhm. >> And then sometimes it’s like well I feel nothing. It’s like okay well that’s still you’re experiencing something >> or I feel tension or I feel joy or >> okay what do you feel in your in your
[14:56] lower belly in your solar plexus. So tracking it, helping them track it. >> And then I may intuitively in that moment track something like, oh, I can literally feel in you. Like my experience of this person is I may feel their solar plexus is blocked. >> But I don’t I don’t always just come
[15:12] right out and say that >> cuz I want to leave it up to them to discern for themsel and also be >> be open to what may be alive for them. Like that’s what I’m tracking, but I don’t know the truth of this person’s experience totally. So >> uh I try to keep it like that. And then
[15:27] so yeah, breath inquiry, helping them feel their body and using visualization >> very helpful as well. >> Mhm. >> To track it through either visualization or feeling sensation, >> one of those two. And most people favor one or the other.
[15:43] >> Mhm. >> And usually they play on each other too. So >> for me, I’m I’m more of a feeling person. So I sense things. So when I go inward the visualization usually the feeling precedes the visualization for me. Some people the
[15:58] visualization precedes the feeling. >> Mhm. >> So then they may see something and then a feeling arises. >> So I just work with what’s alive for that person. >> That’s beautiful. >> Yeah. I find there’s a little part that
[16:11] I want to add to that or or my experience in it that that can be really beautiful when guiding clients and that is hearing the story in its entirety and then stopping the loop. So because often times when we’re caught in our mind, we’ll just go around and around and around in circles
[16:30] >> and stopping it. So hearing it fully and then stopping that and then connecting that to a place of the same energy that has happened in their past. >> So going back to you know a year ago, a week ago, a day ago when something similar happened that that created a similar sensation in the body.
[16:48] >> Mhm. >> And going back to that. So removing the story from what they’re currently feeling and attaching or or traveling to a place where they have felt it in the past. always um lessens the energy that they feel >> towards the story that’s happening now.
[17:05] So that’s a way to drop into the body a little bit deeper as well. >> And I love what you shared with um tracking and connecting to the body and and the different parts of the body that um energy may be stuck and intuitively guiding and asking questions there. It’s a big part of it. Mhm.
[17:22] >> Um, >> and also the idea that they’re all just stories. >> Mhm. >> That we’re stuck in. You know, they can be great stories, they can be challenging, they can be true, and they can be untrue, but all of the the mind
[17:38] is just playing out stories, >> you know, >> and often it’s anxiety because the story is in the future or depression if the story is in the past. Mhm. >> But bringing it back to what do we have? >> We don’t have the future. We don’t have the past.
[17:56] >> All we have is this moment now >> and then it’s gone and then there’s another one, >> you know. >> Yeah. And to add on what you said, which I enjoy your reference of the past to kind of help help track the energy and something
[18:12] I love to do is like when was the first time you experienced this? Mhm. >> When was the first time you remember experiencing this? And often it’s like >> sometime in the first seven years of someone’s life >> like oh yeah the first time I felt this anxiety or depression or charge or loop
[18:28] I was five. Oh what was that? What was happening? And like oh my dad got really angry. It’s like okay well and then we have kind of the seed of that and we can go straight to the root >> and seed and then doing inner child work or doing energy work with that aspect >> then can clear the whole timeline
[18:46] >> and it can be quite profound can be quite profound to go back to the root and create a new story a new narrative a new perspective >> and find compassion for the dad. >> Yeah. >> Right. And I think that’s a big part of it. It’s like, can you soften the
[19:00] judgment and the energy you have towards your dad showing up angry, >> right? >> It’s like that can create a softening in the energy now and just going back and forth. >> It can be really that oscillation is profound.
[19:11] >> Mhm. Yeah. >> And something that can be powerful too that I like to play with, especially as we build rapport with someone, is like going between hatred and compassion. Like can you feel how much you hate your dad in this memory or how hurt you were >> or how afraid you were and can you fully
[19:29] feel that now? Can you feel it from now where you can have a more perspective of compassion, love, and forgiveness? And going between the two because now we have choice. >> Now it’s like we have the choice. Do I want to hold on to the story of I hate my dad or whatever it might be
[19:44] >> or I have compassion and forgiveness not to excuse poor behavior just to free myself. >> Yeah. And I found 99% of the time, if not 100% of the time, when we have that choice between something very negative or positive, the human being always gravitates to the positive.
[20:02] >> It it might take a moment. However, if we massage it enough, we always want that. >> That’s where we want to reside. >> But our our ego structure that keeps us safe is always focusing on the negative. Yeah. >> Right. So, it’s a matter of noticing and
[20:16] witnessing that and reframing it >> time and time again. >> Right. Yeah. and learning to do this with oursel. >> Yeah. >> Like these are the practices. Everything we’re talking about is what I do with myself too.
[20:27] >> And it’s how I save myself, so to speak. >> Yeah. >> Save myself from myself ultimately. >> Yeah. >> And something just to tie it back to that savior energy, something that I’ve found is like one of the reasons the savior can be quite unhealthy is because
[20:46] it perceives someone as being disempowered. therefore victim to their experience or circumstance. >> Broken. >> It perceives the other person to be broken when you know people are in challenging cir circumstances but
[21:00] nobody’s broken. >> We’re all whole. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Totally. It’s like when we perceive oursel as rather than broken or anything of that nature, simply a part of oursel that is
[21:17] coming up that’s asking for love and presence and integration and it may be showing up as like a lot of anger or a lot of fear or a lot of powerlessness. >> Yeah. And yeah, one of um one of our friends, Dne, he talks about it and this has always
[21:33] stuck with me is like when those negative things arise, he’s like, “What if that’s your power trying to come back to you?” >> Mhm. >> That’s a question he asked his clients and he’s I’ve worked with him uh and he’s supported me in those ways, too.
[21:47] >> Because it is it is the power trying to come back. That that energy that you feel when something shows up in a way that is challenging is your power returning. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Exactly. >> But we don’t want to act from that fire.
[21:59] No. >> Right. We want to we want to approach it with understanding and compassion and and still know that that’s a truth that has to be spoken from a good place. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And so in that we can then soften our
[22:11] judgment resistance and trying to control that negative energy that’s coming up. >> It it’s a flipping of like also not being victim to a negative experience within oursel. >> Take our power back from that too. So
[22:26] in that I found that when we’re stuck in disempowerment or wounding or the perception of being broken, not that we are just the misperception of it >> is I found there’s always a separation from God soul consciousness. So from my experience our most whole
[22:49] inherent self is a tr a place of truth within oneself call it spirit soul consciousness God and the aspects of the self that need to be saved for lack of a better term or desire to be saved are the ones that have forgotten >> and kind of like branched off from the wholeness.
[23:06] >> Similar to how like a cancer cell no longer is working with the wholeness of the body. It’s kind of working on its own just doing its own thing being separate. that there’s parts of the psyche that are operating in that way that then can create chaos or negativity or suffering. And if we can get to that
[23:24] root and be like, “Oh, this part is feeling separate from the whole and find methods and ways to bring it back into wholeness, help it remember that at the core of its being, it is God, it is soul, it is consciousness, it is love, then there’s an inherent empowerment in that.
[23:44] And that’s really the most empowering space as a human in our inner world is to know oursel >> as God, as truth, as spirit, as pure love. >> Mh. >> And I found that that is
[24:01] the the the that’s what those parts often are are desiring. >> It’s a returning and a remembrance of home. >> Yeah. >> This is home. >> Yeah. Yeah. That’s really beautiful.
[24:14] Thank you for sharing that, brother. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And so, do you have any other any other threads you want to share or tie up before we close our our episode today? Yeah. I want to share an invitation to
[24:40] for the viewers and for myself and for you Robbie to reflect on where in our lives are we showing up with the savior energy >> and how can we choose a little bit differently in it? How can we show up and soften that energy and create the
[24:59] momentum and the movement and the direction of our higher self? >> And just ask start asking ourself challenging questions. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. And I’ll close with a thought as well to build on that. One way I found is a surefire moment of the savior
[25:21] is when we start to believe and feel responsible for other people’s inner experience. >> And for me, responsibility is the ability to respond. And we each person is responsible for their inner world. >> We can’t be responsible for someone else’s inner world. It just isn’t how
[25:42] reality works. We can have the ability to respond to how this person is showing up. If they’re disrespecting us, we can respond by saying, “I will not tolerate this and don’t speak to me this way.” And if they don’t stop, then walking away. >> However, we can’t change their inner
[25:57] world. We can only be responsible for our own inner world. And the savior gets caught in this feeling and belief that we can be or that we should be or that we need to be or that that’s what love is. >> And so that’s another way to track that savior because sometimes it can show up
[26:11] in subtleties. feeling responsible for others. >> Yeah, thank you for that. Yeah, >> that lands. >> So, in rather than trying to be responsible for others, you know, tending to our own self and showing care and love for others.
[26:26] >> Mhm. >> And also letting go of the attachment outcome >> and we all have to choose our own reality at the end of the day. >> Yeah. >> It’s beautiful. Tending our inner garden.
[26:38] >> Yeah. That’s the work. It’s the work. >> Well, thank you. Thank you for inviting me into your home once again and sharing a beautiful, beautiful talk. >> Yeah, it’s a pleasure. Yeah, it’s a it’s a pleasure. And if any of you viewers are curious to deepen in this work, we have a men’s uh following and a group
[27:02] that we have put together um and more groups to come. So >> yeah, we gather every Monday at 5:30 and there’s space in that group and if you have >> curiosity, desire, reach out. >> Mhm. Yeah. And then Kirby and I also work with men and women in different
[27:23] capacities as well. >> So our collaboration right now has been focused on men. However, we also work privately with all humans. So feel free to reach out if you want to be in touch with Kirby. I’m happy to pass along his his contact information and leave us a comment, send us a message. We’d love to
[27:42] hear from you. And how does the Savior show up in your life and how do you navigate it? So until next time, thank you everyone. Have a beautiful week. >> Thank you.