Our second episode of “in the hearts of men” podcast

This is the second episode of Robbie J. Bone and Kirby Freeman’s Podcast: In the hearts of men.

In today’s episode, we discuss the Equanimous Man – Our weekly men’s circle. We share our intention and reason behind creating this group.

>>> To watch the video follow the link here <<<

>>> To listen on Spotify, Click here <<<

>>> To sign up for the Equanimous Man men’s circle, or to learn more, click here <<<

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[00:00] Today we are going to be diving into integrity. Have you ever found yourself falling out of integrity? Robbie and I are excited to to dive deep into this. I know I certainly have. And yeah, I’m curious, Robbie, what does integrity mean to you? [Music]
[00:20] Yeah, this is such a a juicy topic and one that really resonates with me because there’s been many moments in my life where I’ve been out of integrity. And there’s been many moments when I’ve been in integrity. And the contrast between the two really highlights to me what
[00:39] integrity is. Because whenever I’m out of integrity, there’s always a feeling of kind of like guilt or shame or kind of like I can just feel that it’s unaligned and it doesn’t feel good to me. And then often there can be moments of wanting to hide or withhold and
[01:02] that just feels not good. And then >> in the in the moment of integrity there’s a sense of like healthy pride. there’s a sense of like, oh yeah, I’ve done what’s true and right, and even if it’s been hard, I can feel really aligned and good about that. >> And so for me, integrity,
[01:21] I see integrity as wholeness. I see integrity as like a vessel that has integrity is free from leaks, >> right? >> Yeah. >> So if a boat lacks integrity, it’s not going to last too long.
[01:34] >> It’s going to eventually sink. If a cup has lacks integrity, it’s not going to hold its full capacity. >> And so the same within the relationships that we carry, if our if we fall out of integrity and we don’t patch that up, those leaks up, then over time that relationship
[01:53] will sink. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Beautiful. >> And yeah, I’m curious what your understanding and how you would define and talk about integrity. Yeah, it it is a beautiful topic and I and I
[02:06] love how you framed it there. Yeah. For me, integrity is doing the right thing that’s aligned with my higher self when nobody is watching. It’s >> like knowing that regardless of who is around, be it nobody, be it myself, if I’m in nature and, you know, and it’s like not picking an overabundance of
[02:27] chantrell mushrooms when I’m picking, you know, making it so that I have enough >> um but I’m also leaving for um the seed of the mushroom and also for other people to enjoy as well. So for me it’s really um it’s selfless and I I like the the
[02:47] patching of the ship and the and the leaking analogy because I feel like when we when we do have integrity we are holding and have the ability and the capacity to hold um to a greater amount. And yeah, I certainly relate to what you were sharing in that like in life I feel like integrity is a line similar to
[03:08] perfection and perfect like balance >> and I don’t feel like it’s I feel like we can we can get on to it >> and then we fall off. So it’s a matter of coming into right relation and when we do find ourselves not necessarily in integrity in an area, you know, how do we navigate back to that that place,
[03:28] right? It’s not easy and there’s often almost always um challenging conversations to be had in the process of bringing it back into right relation. >> So yeah, that’s my understanding of it. And I’m curious like in your experience, current or past, are there any examples of where you’ve fallen out of integrity
[03:51] that you feel open to sharing here today? >> Yeah. So one one thing that before I go into that that I want to touch on is the importance of integrity as a as something that creates safety and trust
[04:12] >> in ourselves >> that when we can hold integrity I’ve found that it creates a deeper sense of safety, trust and confidence with ourselves and in our relationships and often often we slip out of integrity I found in those moments of fear right
[04:30] where you know maybe I feel insecure or unsafe so rather than listening to you know what that’s going to be okay I’m then I end up doing the thing that is out of integrity so there’s this direct relationship between safety confidence trust and and integrity and also the flip side of out
[04:48] of integrity >> so there’s certainly been moments in my life where I have slipped out of integrity And one has been in relationship and in past relationships having leaky energy and having a sense of
[05:10] leaky energy around my sexuality and seeing the the effect that that can have over time even in little ways right just entertaining possible energies with someone even if I know it’s not going to go anywhere. Even engaging in porn rather than taking that sexual energy to the container of my relationship
[05:33] >> and how that that leaky energy over time it degrades from the the intimacy, the trust, the safety, the confidence of the relationship. And in that it also has an effect that’s felt by our partners. like even if it’s hidden, even if it’s not told or spoken of, women specifically are extremely
[05:55] intuitive and it’s felt in the field and they feel I think from my experience there’s a felt sense of withholding that they can sense from us >> and that breeds distrust and it can kind of what I’ve seen is it can kind of make a a mountain out of a molehill where it’s sometimes not even that big of a
[06:14] deal if if you just talk about it and you’re just like, “Hey, this is what I’m feeling or like I’m feeling attracted to this person >> and I feel temptation to explore it but I you know I want to bring that to you and I don’t necessarily want to because I value our relationship that’s what’s
[06:26] alive for me >> or like I find myself watching porn because I need connection and I haven’t known how to ask for it or how to engage in in that way >> and just like that being somehow really hard to do in the past in those moments right because of the fear
[06:44] >> that’s beautiful that you brought fear into it and the fear was what held you back But in it um what did the fear create? What did how did that play out when you let the fear take over and you didn’t have the conversation? What what how did it play out?
[06:59] >> Right. It tends to like I love this term like what’s mentionable is manageable >> and when we don’t mention it, it tends to >> then grow into something more and and tends to escalate. So I found that in my >> relationships when that would happen, it tended to build up more distrust and
[07:22] separation and more because those patterns for me were from were a result of me feeling like a fear of intimacy and a fear of opening myself. >> And then that intimacy created separation. That separation caused me to want to find those emotional needs and sexual needs met in other ways. Mhm.
[07:40] >> And in that it creates more of that distance and more of that emotional distance between me and my past partners. And in that distance, it then makes the problem worse, bigger. >> What I hear is that the fear >> um playing out and and and winning, if you will, creates the manifestation of
[08:01] whatever you’re scared of, >> right? Is I’m afraid if I say this thing, it’s going to my my partner’s going to break up with me. Mhm. >> where you know if you say it, you reconnect >> and and it allows for it to move, but if you don’t say it, the fear
[08:17] >> wins and manifests into reality, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Totally. >> It’s wild. >> 100%. >> Mhm. >> And I I appreciate you hearing me and I
[08:26] feel that you can hear me with such clarity because you’ve also experienced >> That’s true. >> Yeah. And I’m curious if you’d be open to sharing some of your experiences. >> Yeah, there’s there’s many and and I witness myself fairly often kind of not not falling off in ways that I used to
[08:48] fall off, which are bigger and more impactful. Um, you know, a really big one that took me a long time to transmute and I still hold some energy around is dishonesty, lying, not being honest with um my past partners, my my family, my children. And
[09:11] it was for fear of hurting them. And the dishonesty, you know, played out and the fear of it played out and hurting them. All of them. past partners broke up with me for lying to them >> and I hurt them. And it’s, you know, my effort in it was not to hurt them. It was to protect myself and protect them
[09:31] and and maintain safety. But that was just an illusion. You know, true safety is through authenticity and transparency, you know, and both of those I was not embodying. And so I found that, you know, in not being honest and not being good with my word, it created a shell of a person and it
[09:53] really plays into inauthenticity. And I was liked by a lot of people in that inauthentic state. But I was loved by no one or very very few. Very surface level love. And you know, now that I’ve really deepened and steeped in my authenticity, um I feel that I’m loved by many and I’m
[10:15] I’m hated by a few too, >> right? And and that’s kind of hard to swallow, but it feels true. And it’s like that that’s okay because I I’m going to walk down the sidewalk however I feel like it as long as I’m respectful. Um, I’m going to roll sometimes or I’m going to spin around in
[10:32] circles. Whatever I feel like doing in an authentic expression is how I’m going to show up in my life. >> And that feels really pure and powerful to um to bring. And yeah, you know, we also have uh in in circle in meeting with men um a set of agreements and an agreement field and
[10:56] it’s a really powerful practice to um bring broken agreements into right relationship. >> I’m curious if you have anything to share around your experience in bringing broken agreements into right relationship. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for sharing
[11:15] some of the ways that you felt have been a struggle in shadow of integrity. And honesty really resonates as well because really honesty is being forthright about these things, right? And dishonesty is not always telling a lie. It can also there can be this gray area of withholding.
[11:34] >> Omission. >> Yeah. Omission. >> Yeah. Yeah. And in an intimate relationship, omitting or withholding can feel similar to lying. >> It’s the same. >> Yeah. >> And not even an intimate relationship,
[11:47] all relationship. >> Mhm. >> You know, there are certain circumstances where the the the listener, you know, for protection of safety of the person. You don’t want to tell somebody, you know, what’s happening in your intimate relationship
[12:00] or withholding is necessary for safety. But yeah, I really like to be open in an open book. >> Mhm. >> Thanks for seeing me. >> Yeah. And yeah, like how much as men our authentic self
[12:19] is so needed and desired in the world. And yet it’s so vulnerable >> because there’s that fear of rejection >> and the fear of what if I’m not accepted? And I love how you say like you’re like you
[12:38] were liked by all but loved by few or none. And that’s really the result, right? >> Yeah. And a lot of men end up being really lonely >> and they may have a lot of acquaintances or friends but they lack the deeper meaningful loving relationships which
[12:53] when we really have those friendships and connections outside of our intimate relationship it adds to the intimate relationship because not all the intimacy emotionally is needing to be had from the the partner. And it also ends up being that like we don’t need 20 really deep meaningful friendships.
[13:12] often a handful >> is nourishing and enough and like >> it’s like you only have so much time to really nourish a deep friendship anyways. >> And so yeah, the authenticity as a as a pathway to deeper intimacy with ourselves, with our partners, and with
[13:30] our friends >> and our community and the love that’s born out of that >> and the respect. Mhm. >> And so yeah, for me the breaking of agreements, whether the agreement is explicit or inexplicit. Sometimes we have agreements
[13:48] that we both know are present and yet maybe they haven’t been said like these are the guidelines to this relationship, whatever it may be. There’s a feeling inside of when we know like for me there’s a feeling inside that I know it’s been >> broken or dishonored and it’s a feeling
[14:04] of like Oh, I don’t want to talk about that. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Oh, maybe I don’t need to talk about that. Maybe I’ll just, you know, >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Yeah. >> So, that’s always a sign that it’s time
[14:16] to have a conversation. And for me, I like to sit with it and receive clarity and begin a process of doing my inner work and dialogue around what inspired the breaking of that agreement and how can I own it on a deeper level than just like feeling guilty or shameful or remorseful and apologizing, but instead
[14:39] like, hey, you know, this agreement was broken because of this reason and I saw inside of myself that I was holding back where I was afraid and it expressed in this way that I’m not justifying however I’m looking at that deeper root because I really want to own it and transform it and transmute it and I’m still in that
[14:58] process and and kind of like coming at it from that >> especially if it’s a deeper you know if it’s a little thing maybe it’s not as needed to take that much space but it’s always good to have that clarity because >> when I’ve gone into it lacking clarity then it creates more confusion for the
[15:14] person or the other people >> whereas when we and just be really clear like, hey, this is where I fell out of line in my integrity when I went back on my integrity and I’m sorry and I and I’m working on changing it and I’m a human and it may not happen right away. >> Mhm.
[15:29] >> And I’m and I’m taking the steps. And that for me is is really it is having the hard conversation and coming from as empowered as a place as I can rather than coming as like a victim energy of like >> oh I was powerless and you know I’m sorry but I’m also like not taking full
[15:48] responsibility. >> You know what I mean? Like kind of Yeah. >> ownership. Owning it. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Precisely. So I found that to be crucial and then also taking the steps after the before after >> that conversation
[16:04] >> to bring it to right relation. Is that what I’m hearing? >> Precisely. Yeah. >> Yeah. That’s that’s really beautiful. I love how you articulate that and sitting in it and steeping in it and and reflecting and gaining some clarity before you bring it. I think that that’s
[16:18] wise. Some sometimes it’s not always possible, >> but it it’s great when we can do that. And then um you know articulating it in a way of ownership not in a in from a place of victimhood is also wise and and received you know
[16:35] >> often well >> and yeah that that’s really that’s really >> beautiful and important and thank you for sharing. >> And something else I’ll add to that that you’ve helped me with too in moments >> is having a conversation with a friend.
[16:49] Phone a friend. >> Be like hey I messed up. >> Pick up a lifeline. >> Yeah. I need to have a conversation. Can I decompress a little bit or like take it apart with you? Um >> and kind of talk about it and help get clarity because being alone in it often
[17:02] we need that psychic shared space and reflections from others. >> And that’s really important to have those connections and people to to do that with as well. >> And then the other is if we are bringing it to someone especially in an intimate
[17:18] setting is to prepare them. not to just drop a bomb, but be like, “Hey, I have something that’s vulnerable that I feel ashamed about or whatever I feel and this doesn’t feel comfortable for me to share it. And do you have the space and capacity to hold me in this?” >> And even naming it without naming it, I
[17:35] feel like I’m out of integrity. >> It’s beautiful. Yes. I mean, that’s a full >> I feel it’s complet. really necessary when we’re ever bringing things to in particular a romantic partner to make sure that we are not triggered, they are not triggered. Two very key components
[17:54] and then check in with space. >> You know, do you have space to hear something that might be challenging for you >> or could be triggering for you? >> You know, >> it’s it really sets it up for success and also speaking and mentioning the
[18:10] desired outcome of it. M >> I want to share this with you so that we can connect deeper, right? In effort to have a deeper sense of intimacy with you after so that in the future this doesn’t happen. >> And the apology that I heard you say, you know, you you often will or
[18:29] sometimes will say sorry, >> I feel is just it’s a word. It’s a nice word, >> but it’s just a word, >> you know, and you alluded to it after. It’s with your plan of how you’re going to bring it into right relation with your action. Because an apology is just
[18:45] an apology. >> But an apology backed by action, that’s the true apology. That’s the truth in it is this is how I’m showing up and not doing the thing that I did that threw me off of the line of integrity in the first place. >> Yeah.
[19:01] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, like a true apology is ownership. Own >> ownership and and correction of action. >> Bringing it into right relationship is the correction of that action. >> Correcting the ship. >> Writing the ship. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. >> And Yeah. Do you have any anything else
[19:20] to add from your experiences of bringing something of this nature into right relationship within your life or relationships? It’s like, you know, communication, communication is so important and huge and we’ve already touched on it. Um, but that intuitive hit of, “Oh I don’t
[19:40] think that I should share this is a compass pointing you right at the fact that you need to, >> you know, not you and projecting it that way, but like that I if it’s happening to me, I need to share it and leaning into the discomfort because the fear of the actualization
[19:59] of whatever you’re thinking is always worse than the event of actually doing You know, it’s like things that I’ve been scared of after I’ve completed them, it’s like >> that really was not that bad. >> Not even a fraction of what I thought it
[20:14] was going to be. >> So, getting out of the mind and into the heart. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. It’s such a good test, too, right? of just like we want to be around people that meet us where
[20:32] we’re at and have compassion and forgiveness for us as well, right? >> So, yeah, when we share in that way, we we recognize the nature of what the relationship is and and what it can hold as well. >> Can you say more on that? Well, it’s
[20:50] like it’s kind of like what how I see it is like there’s the fear that like, oh, if I share my most vulnerable authentic self and where aspects of where I’ve perhaps fallen out of integrity, the fear is that, you know, it will degrade the relationship or there will be rejection or judgment or shaming. And
[21:14] if we share in those ways and that’s the result, then it’s a bit of a a lit test so to speak for the relationship, >> right? And and what where are the relationships at without causing >> finding fault in anyone else. Just what is the how is that relationship? >> And if it’s something that
[21:32] >> is a serious event or choice that’s out of integrity and we’re honest and the relationship can’t sustain it, then it’s better to just see that for what it is, right? >> Rather than hide it out of fear to be like, “Oh, I don’t want to lose this relationship, so I’ll keep this thing
[21:49] hidden.” And then, you know, it’s better to just come out with it and be like, “How does how is this how does the ship fare in this storm?” >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And if it if it sinks, then that’s a lesson. >> Yeah. And it illustrates clearly what
[22:02] you’re saying is that the ship was not meant to float, >> which like there’s one in a romantic dynamic, there’s three entities that I see. There’s there’s an individual and individual and the entity of the togetherness and the togetherness is the ship and if the ship is not meant to
[22:17] weather the storm then it will sink >> and just trusting that process and as you said extracting the lessons as best as we can >> that’s you know that’s and not taking it personally and just seeing it as >> you know this is a lesson on my path right not becoming too attached to the
[22:35] togetherness of that relationship for this lifetime for example Mhm. >> Impermanence is real. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Totally. Yeah. Mhm. >> And so,
[22:51] yeah, that’s something I’ve really come to know and learn about integrity, too, is that especially as men, we can strive for perfection and hold ourselves to a high standard as a masculine kind of almost goal setting of like this ideal image >> of oursel. And integrity is often a
[23:12] piece of that, especially if we’re on a path of consciousness and conscious relating. And in that it can be hard to go through these steps because if we’re holding oursel to such a high standard then when we perceive oursel as failing so to
[23:30] speak or or making a mistake then it’s harder to own it because there’s like more pride on the line. >> And what I found about integrity is that it’s not about being in integrity 100% of the time. That’s the goal. However, we’re humans and humans are going to make mistakes at times and a part of
[23:49] integrity be part of being in integrity in our life is knowing how to come back >> into right relation which is the whole conversation. >> Yeah. Yeah. And it’s so important >> and fear is the compass leaning in. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. It’s very very on point.
[24:09] How do you come back into integrity? Mhm. Yeah. >> This has been a really beautiful topic and great conversation. >> Yeah. >> And it’s, you know, exciting to continue to explore what is alive in us and me
[24:29] and you >> in these uh podcasts. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. Thank you. Really appreciate sharing this space with you and everyone who’s listening. Yeah. And and me too. >> Yeah. Deep gratitude, deep bows.